Thing is, based on some information from a couple of other authors, which I will not name to protect their privacy, I do not believe them.
My correspondence with Createspace since the last post went as follows:
Hello Jessica,
Thank you for your patience.
The copy you referenced was printed through Expanded Distribution. Because Expanded Distribution copies are printed by another company, the finished product might look different. Amazon will sometimes fulfill orders through Expanded Distribution to ensure they meet customer demand. When this happens, you will always receive the Amazon royalty once we receive the Expanded Distribution manufacture reports.
You can always tell the difference between a copy print by CreateSpace as the product ID located on the last page of the interior is accompanied with a manufacture date and location.
We are always looking for ways to improve the products we offer and appreciate your taking the time to share your experience with Expanded Distribution manufacturing.
If you would like to discuss this further, please reply to this message and provide a phone number and a good time to reach you.As you can imagine, I was FURIOUS at this canned response after all the trouble I went to. And I replied:
I'm sorry but a form letter in reply to this issue is not satisfactory.To this, Createspace, again, tried to fob me off with another form letter, which infuriated me even more:
The copies I received were clearly defected and not cut properly, and I would like replacements. A previous staff member even admitted that the photos I sent you showed that you needed to look into the matter. What was the result? Why were my books in such bad shape? They did not just 'look different'. They had major problems as you can see in the photographs I sent. I would like an answer to this question, and the five copies I purchased, replaced.
Thank you for contacting us.
The book that you referenced was printed through Expanded Distribution. Amazon can fulfill orders through Expanded Distribution to ensure they meet customer demand.
We are always looking for new ways to improve the products we offer through Expanded Distribution.
If you would like assistance or clarification on this or anything else, kindly inform is and we will gladly assist. We are available 24 hours a day 7 days a week. You can reach out to us by clicking here www.createspace.com/supportAgain, in my hotheadedness, I replied, probably a little unprofessionally, but who can blame me?:
Hello,Finally I got someone that wasn't just copy and pasting a canned response, sort of:
What exactly does this mean? That you will send me replacement copies through Amazon?
How do I go about ordering them to ensure I don't get charged again?
And why do you keep ignoring my question? I want to know whether the faulty copies from BD was just a one-off error. Can I feel safe having my book printed via your subcontractors, or not? If my books are always going to be printed like this through BD, I would like to remove my expanded distribution. This is why I need answers. PLEASE, stop avoiding to answer this question. It's very important to me, and I'm sure it's very important to a lot of other authors out there too.
Hello Jessica,
Thank you for contacting us with regards to your order. I will gladly address your inquiry for you.
It means that you can contact Amazon and request for a replacement copy/copies free of charge. Amazons return policy will apply in this instance. They will replace the number of copies defective and give you a return label to return the defective copies for investigation.
This is not a typical error and it does not usually happen. However, the expanded distribution outlet can investigate what caused this error to prevent it for future orders.Okay. So ... after all this, I do NOT trust that they will deliver quality books to me. At least not through expanded distribution. Though it may not be any direct fault of their own, but rather the fault of their subcontractors, they're clearly trying to cover their own asses by pussy-footing around this problem. It's definitely NOT a one-off. Because one of the authors that contacted me said this about their order ...
We constantly try to improve our services in order to better serve you. So please trust us to deliver quality books to you.
It's a 5.25"x8" pbk and it was trimmed to 5"x8". You can imagine what it looks like: the cover is unbalanced with part of the title sliced through along the opening edge, and there's less than 0.25" outer margins on the text block. The paper is cream, if a lighter tone than from CSpace HQ (or the more yellow UK version, but certainly not white), but the ink is much darker giving it quite an in-your-face aspect. I'd expected this to be printed somewhere in the UK or Europe considering Book Depository is based in England, but it was printed in the USA though I've no idea where from the barcode on the last page.She then went on to say, that they replied with the same sort of form letter as mine above, and that they clearly do not give a damn.
I am now seriously thinking about removing my paperbacks from expanded distribution and looking into opening a Lightning Source account. Problem with Lightning Source is, it's a rather complicated procedure, and it costs a bit of money to set up an account, not to mention the fact that I'd have to purchase my own ISBNs. I don't have the time to be a publisher. Createspace is easy because it spares us from having to deal with the extra fiddly tasks and set-up costs.
Are shoddy books the price we have to pay for easy publishing?
What do you think after all this? Can we really trust Expanded Distribution through Createspace to provide our customers with a quality product?
I'm impressed you maintained your professionalism throughout. 2 canned responses is not professional on their part. Your last question is hard to answer. It is extremely difficult for one person to have the same control and influence over book quality and distribution as a publisher. At least, not without more work and cost. Good luck.
ReplyDeleteIf it makes you feel any better, my (and another author I know too) LS books were delivered defective and had to be returned for new ones. Plus a book I ordered from a trad. publisher had pages from a different book scattered throughout the entire ending of the book, so I missed the entire climax. But, usually that's not the case.
ReplyDeleteI don't know what to tell you. LS is definitely more expensive. Why not contact Bob Mayer and Jen Talty. They recently switched from using LS to Createspace for all their books. See what they think.
You have been so diligent in your efforts to get this wrong corrected. It's strange to me that they would give you the run-around, when it's authors like you who feed their mouths. And if I was that other author you mentioned, the one with the cut off front cover, OMGosh...I would be furious. Keep us in the loop with what you decide to do. I'm definitely learning a lot.
ReplyDeleteI have not had a problem with either Lightning Source or CreateSpace. I did have one author order books where some were not of top quality and they were replaced--this was Amazon. We switched to CreateSpace for many reasons, mostly we meet with them at BEA and they could meet some needs for us as a publishing company and the cost is less. We have not had any issues with any books (that we know of) purchased through other outlets. When we order books we always order direct from Amazon, not Expanded Distribution, but again, we have no issues.
ReplyDeleteI certainly see your frustration and I would keep on them. I have found them easy to work with and any issue has been solved. Sometimes, and this is true with any company, I've had to send more than one email, make more than one phone call.
There are both positives and negatives to using either CreateSpace or Lightnings source and while the majority of our books are through CreateSpace--I have left some books at Lightning Source and will use them for ARCs.
Oops. Above comment was made by Jen Talty.
DeleteThanks so much for chiming in, Jen. :) I think I might just end up removing the Expanded Dist, as all books I've ordered from Amazon have been fine ...
DeleteI agree that they can't be trusted. It might just be a one-off fault, but because you won't see each and every copy that's bought, you'll never know for certain - and their responses have done nothing to reassure me, let alone you!
ReplyDeleteClearly you can't. I mean if it's a third party's fault, shouldn't Createspace be more clear with you about what they're going to do to ensure it never happens again?
ReplyDeleteOh, man--yeah, people really need to be aware of this. I'm willing to bet if a bunch of people back out because of it, they will do a better job of policing their subcontractors, but it really stinks that they seem to have to be pounded in the head a whole bunch before they will do the right thing.
ReplyDeleteSo frustrating!! I hope something helps solve this matter. Good luck and thanks for sharing with us!!
ReplyDeleteI can't believe the second response you got was pretty much identical to the first response, just shorter. Shitty customer service, there
ReplyDeleteGeez, just another thing to worry about when you're already busy. And it's a major pain to email them just to get the same canned response TWICE. But now I understand your Tweet to Bob and Jen this morning. I wondered where you heard they had switched.
ReplyDeleteWhat lame responses!!! I'd look elsewhere.
ReplyDeleteThey really didn't want to deal with the problem, did they?
ReplyDeleteJessica, Lightning Source really isn't that much more expensive to use. But yes, you will need your own ISBNs.
Way to hang in there. I'll remember this company when my time comes.
ReplyDeleteGreat work sticking with this, Jessica! Everybody's already said what I'd say. I just wish there was some way to let the consumer know to return defective books and get a refund/replacement! :P <3
ReplyDeleteThere have been variations on the covers of my books (and one that was not good), but with a digital press, you won't get the kind of consistency that you do on a standard press job. Clearly there are glitches, but I think this might be the price we pay for not having to print thousands of our own books and having that kind of money involved. I have found that calling Createspace (using their Call Me function) has been much more effective than emails. The people have been very helpful and timely. Also, buying your own ISBNs and becoming your own publisher doesn't take as much time as you think (less time than creating an ebook for certain... my least fav part of publishing). I do think we need to fight for the best quality possible and applaud your efforts.
ReplyDeleteHi Jess .. wanted to wish you Happy Birthday today - just realised it's here .. ie today 26th is here! Hope you're having a happy day ... and that it's warm ... not so clever in the UK - can't wait for Spring ...
ReplyDeleteCheers and have a lovely Greek-Aussie meal with some good vino .. Hilary
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ReplyDeleteYeah, Amazon just doesn't care. I've definitely learned that Lightning Source is the way to go.
ReplyDeleteWow this sounds like a nightmare. Unfortunately, I can't help you, but am keeping my fingers crossed that you'll get this mess sorted out soon.
ReplyDeleteI was just about to sign up with CS for my debut novel. Now I don't know what to do! And I also just found out that Amazon isn't exactly forthcoming on author royalties either. Many have found their statements lack recording of recent sales. So, where does that leave us indie authors?
ReplyDeleteWow, what a mess and UNFAIR. I'm proud of you for not giving up on corresponding with them. I probably would have gone to my corner and sucked my thumb.
ReplyDeleteI came across your post as I am trying to decide whether or not to sign up for expanded distribution for my books. I write and illustrate children's picture books and have used createspace for all of my books, though I haven't used expanded distribution yet for any of them. I have found that createspace has been fantastic to work with. I had a batch of books I ordered directly through them that arrived with a pixel sized white line through all of the pages, as though a piece of dirt was in the printer. Not good for a picture book! I sent them photos and they turned around and printed a new batch and sent it to me with express shipping at no extra charge. Anytime I have had a question, they have been great to work with on the telephone--real people with real conversations that actually fix problems. I am really sorry to hear you had a tough time with expanded distribution. I think that it is the expanded distribution that is terrible and createspace didn't handle it well in your case. In trying to figure out whether or not to sign up for ED, I have found a bunch of stories from authors who love the exposure, but have found that quality control is dramatically reduced. Perhaps I should hold off on ED until createspace can get a better handle on their 3rd party printers. Thanks for sharing your story!
ReplyDeleteI see this post was kind of a long time ago...but I will say that while Lightning Source printed my book with a beautiful matte finish cover which I preferred to my Createspace cover, the interior black and and white photos from Lightning Source resembled photocopies with very little gray scale. They looked awful and I was forced to pull my title from Lightning Source. And now I know to remove the expanded distribution from Createspace, so thank you!
ReplyDeleteI did quite a lot of research between Createspace, Lightning Source and Lulu and all 3 have severe critics as well as happy customers. Overall Createspace seemed to tick most of the boxes but thank you for the tip on removing expanded distribution. Chalk one up for the Alliance, too!
ReplyDeleteAfter allowing expanded distribution of my books on Amazon, I discovered a UK bookseller offering my titles on eBay. I've since removed my books for any distribution via Amazon channels, and keep the estore linked to my author website. Earlier this year, I removed my titles from KDP Select as well. It's a sham and prevents indie authors from selling elsewhere. I read the fine print when I signed up, gave it a try and quickly moved on. Amazon is quickly showing its ugly head re: indie authors and more and more of us are leaving Amazon. My books are now in print only, and only available through me. Ebooks combined with Amazon is bad news for indies. I encourage everyone to be diligent and keep control of your titles. You have to know who is buying your books. Amazon allows anyone to sell and refuses to disclose who your customers are...that's just bad business.
ReplyDeleteAfter allowing expanded distribution of my books on Amazon, I discovered a UK bookseller offering my titles on eBay. I've since removed my books for any distribution via Amazon channels, and keep the estore linked to my author website. Earlier this year, I removed my titles from KDP Select as well. It's a sham and prevents indie authors from selling elsewhere. I read the fine print when I signed up, gave it a try and quickly moved on. Amazon is quickly showing its ugly head re: indie authors and more and more of us are leaving Amazon. My books are now in print only, and only available through me. Ebooks combined with Amazon is bad news for indies. I encourage everyone to be diligent and keep control of your titles. You have to know who is buying your books. Amazon allows anyone to sell and refuses to disclose who your customers are...that's just bad business.
ReplyDeleteOh dear, oh dear,
Deletewhat is the problem, if somebody sells your book through ebay? They are hardly criminal. And, moreover, it is the destiny of expanded distribution to open as many sale`s channels as possible. Do you want to divide your customers into the bad and the good guys? That for matters of privacy rights Amazon does not disclose individual customers` identities is more than appropriate, too.If you publish through a normal publisher, do you think you will be informed on the identity of any individual buyer?
In my opinion, Cairenn, you have very strange ideas on that topic.
Do you feel better, little troll? Your response is childish and uneducated. Did you read the article? You have completely missed the point of the article and my response.
DeleteI have a long career in publishing and writing. I suspect you are just getting your feet wet and scrambling to figure it all out.
You'll learn. :)
I have a question. Are CreateSpace books, at least for the English and North American market, not any way produced by Lightning Source? I thought I had read somewhat of that kind in the Press. If this should really be the case, switching to Lightning Source would make no sense at all.
ReplyDeleteNo, they're not produced by Lightning Source. I wrote this post a very long time ago, and since then I have been with Lightning Source, and I tell you, I haven't been happier or more pleased with their printing and customer service. I even get my own customer service rep who replies promptly to my inquiries and has never once replied with a form letter. And they're super friendly and eager to help you whenever and however possible. I can trust, too, that no matter where in the world my books are purchased, or from what retailer, they will be printed by the same printer.
DeleteHello Jessica, I spoke of "produced by Lightning Source" in the sense, that they are for expanded distribution channels the printer of the CreateSpace titles. And remember:Expanded Distribution is mainly done through Lightning Source`s mother company Ingram. So Lightning Source my not be the publisher for Expanded Distribution but might at least do the physical printing. Moreover, my own
Deleteexperience with Lightning Source connected business is somewhat mixed.
As a german author, I have written a political essay book called "Götterdämmerung zweier Großreiche? Amerika und Europa am Scheideweg" (Books on Demand, Norderstedt, July, 2014). The publisher Books on Demand in Northern Germany uses Lightning Source for printing and distributing this book outside continental Europe. Although I definitely know for sure, that several hundred copies of this book are stocked in the warehouses of some online sellers alone, my german publisher has up to now only indicated four sales to me. I am therefore somewhat uncertain, whether or not I am cheated.